Review Phottix Odin for Sony
A while ago, during the review of the Sony Alpha 99 I mentioned two deal breakers for me.
One was the ability to shoot tethered, which was solved by the guys from DNAsoftware, the second one was the ability to shoot with small flash with a pocket wizard style solution, but as soon as I mentioned this I already got a lot of good tips from social media followers, including the Phottix solution (Odin).
My “wish” was to be able to use TTL via radio, HSS and preferable (after getting used to the great new Canon ST-E3) a display with the settings. Now when I checked the Phottix website it seemed that the Odin was indeed just what I needed, but…. it was not yet tested with the A99, aaargh.
After some great email contact with Steve from Phottix I got a set to test out a few weeks ago and after the first quick tests it seemed to work just fine, but before I advise gear to you guys I want to make sure it really does work. During the small flash workshop last week it was time to really put the Odin system through the final test (if you can ever speak about a final test).
The Odin consists of a unit on the camera with a nice display which makes the users life a lot easier because you can set everything from a very easy and handy to navigate menu system. On the flash site you place the strobe on top of a receiver. Both units run from standard batteries and can be upgraded by USB.
At the moment I have to use convertors for my strobe and camera because the system is still build on the “old” hotshoe system from Sony/Minolta, but that’s not a big deal, the total setup is very stable and works flawless.
While working with the system I can confirm that the following things work flawless: TTL via radio, High Speed Sync and zooming of the head.
Shot during small flash workshop
A few things you have to be aware off however when working with the Odin.
1.
When test firing the strobe you cannot use this to meter the light, it will give a “yeah I’m working boss” test signal but that it a fixed output, this is something I hope will be fixed. One workaround could be to let the model hold the meter while shooting a testshot, however that doesn’t work, somehow there is something of a pre-flash. When I press the testbutton on the strobe itself I can meter the output, but when doing a testshoot from the camera it will only meter a “sort of” pre-flash, of course I checked if the red eye pre-flash is off 🙂 so I’m looking into a workaround for this, for now I will not meter the small flash, not a huge problem seeing the benefits of the system, but I do hope it will be fixed or I find another solution.
2.
The display on the Sony (and other strobes) will NOT show what you’re doing, when you know this it’s no problem at all, but it got me thinking “is everything working correctly?”, Phottix confirmed that this is the way the system works so that’s 100% fine, don’t worry.
3.
The Sony strobe can go down to 1/256 but the Odin will only go down to 1/128 also no big problem but just so you know, I believe they are working on something to add this but I’m not sure if that will happen any time soon, and as mentioned before it’s not a real problem it’s just something that got my attention.
Overall working with the Odin system ROCKS….
I loved working with the TT1 and TT5 but also have to add that that is not a cheap solution (although very stable and adding a lot of extras) plus the pocket wizards don’t have a display where you can quickly set the output/zoom etc. of the strobes. When Canon released their new system I almost immediately switched to that system, also helped by the fact that it took PW way too long to get their system on the 5DMKIII, and never looked back. When you’re used to setting your strobes from a display on top of the camera you’re hooked.
The Odin will let you set the strobes in the old fashioned way with ratios (something I never really liked) but also with the (my preference) +3 to -3 FEC settings which makes much more sense for my brain. You can set the strobes in 3 separate groups with multi strobes per group of course. Switching between modes is very quick and straight forward via the Odin control unit making it possible to switch very quickly from manual mode to TTL and zooming the heads. Of course it’s also possible to set the modes in the mix, for example group 1 : off, group 2 : manual, group 3 : TTL. Zooming of the heads is per group. The display is easy to read with the build in amber colored display which is very easy on the eyes.
Shot with the Rogue grid set.
In the workshop the system worked flawless and no problems were experienced, I switched between the different modes and both TTL and manual did exactly what you’d expect.
If you’re in the market for a great remote control system for your small flash and are not too limited on budget (it’s not a budget solution) I would really advise you to check out the Odin system, they deliver them for different systems like Sony, Canon and Nikon. The only thing that would make me still consider Pocket wizards TT system is the addition of the studio strobes that you can also let operate in Hyper Sync mode (this is something else than High Speed Sync which DOES work on the Odins of course as mentioned in the review) but I have to be honest, when you don’t use this, it makes it possible to shoot SOME studio strobes with faster sync speeds than 1/125 on some cameras, I think the Odin system has the better cards for the display and price 😀
The only limitation I can see with the Odin solution is ” Flash zoom can also be easily adjusted manually and set statically from 24 to 105 mm.” WHY only 105 when a Nikon SB900/910 can zoom to 200mm on the flash ?
Now may I ask where you got that quote from ? not from my review, I reread the whole review 3 times and could not find that. in fact on the Sony strobe it let’s me set the zoom from 24 to 135.
So you’re saying that the ODIN’s do not trigger the sync port at HSS speeds? The Pixel King is able to do that, which allows you to combine system flashes together with strobes (such as the Quadra Ranger in High speed or like an PCB Einstein). Can you confirm that the ODIN indeed is unable to use HSS with the sync port? Furthermore, knowing how you love your flash meter (and I agree), don’t you think that not being able to test fire in a mixed environment is a deal breaker? I was seriously considering the ODIN just for the ability to do HSS, as sometimes that becomes necessary. However, if they are otherwise limited as well, the system may only be nice if all you do is system flashes and mostly TTL.
As mentioned at the start of the review HSS does work, what you probably misunderstood is that at the end I said the only real difference where PW “wins” is that PW uses Hyper sync, this is something that makes it possible to break the 1/125 (app) shutterspeed with studio strobes, this is totally different from High Speed Sync what the Odin of course supports (as mentioned in the review)
I hooked up the PW’s to the A99 and Hyper sync does not work with Sony I have to say. As you may have already noticed yourself, the A99 has some flash sync issues if you connect through the standard hotshoe or the PC sync port on the camera. Anything above 1/160th of a second will result in bars creeping in on your image when using studio flashes or other flashes not using the Sony interface. This does not happen with factory flashes. However, the manual clearly states that the PC sync port is capable of 1/250th of a second and this is not working. The reason why I asked whether HSS works is that if the ODIN is able to trigger studio flashes at shutter speeds above 1/250th of a second, then this would be a solution that I could invest for the time when I need more than 1/160th or (if ever fixed by sony) more than 1/250th.
I tried it at different high-speed shuttertimes and it does work.
Thanks Frank. In the meantime I got an answer from phottix which confirms that the max sync speed on studio flashes is 1/250th of a second: “If the Phottix Odin is used to trigger a studio strobe via the sync port, it will allow sync speed up to 1/250th sec maximum.”
sir, is this phottix Odin for sony can uses on elincrome ranger quadra to get hyper sync make shutter speed above 1/250 to max, for solution than Pocket wizzard? because hyper sync PW can’t be work when we use sony.. need help many thanks 😀
Hi,
The limitation is the camera.
So if you’re using a mirror less camera with leaf shutter lens it can go up to the max flash duration of the strobe without loosing output.
If you’re using a camera with a shutter curtain the X-sync of that camera will be the limiting factor.
For Sony this means anything between 1/125-1/200 depending on the camera.
About the flashmetering.
It’s indeed a fact that I use the meter a lot however with small flash I could life with the fact that it doesn’t work, but I have to add that I do not like it, and really hope that they can make it work somehow.
With studio strobes it would be unaccaptable, but with small flash I have to be honest that I don’t use small flash that often, and the times I use it it’s 50% on manual and 50% on TTL so it’s a bit of something I can work with so to say. And the benefits are greater.
Hi just came by by sheer luck. Anyways I wanted to ask this: Can the Odin use HSS on the Elinchrom D-Lite it-4? If so is it on the regular assumption that the transmitter tell the strobe to cut low on power, so that the flash duration becomes shorter? Or can you even use something close to the PW hypersync with Elincrhom strobes and the ODIN? I shoot a Nikon D800 atm, and looking for an alternative to PW, since I’ve gotten used to Nikon CLS (which in most aspects is identical to the Odin exept for the radio transmission).
cheers
Nicolas
Hi,
If you read the review you can see that it does HSS on small flash but it has no hypersync for studioflashes, as far as I know only PW does this.
So if you NEED this, and have a camera and strobesystem that supports it that’s your only choice. Hypersync never really worked for me on the 5DMKII because I could not go higher than 1/320 on my strobes, only on the D-lites I could get higher but I never use those on location.
I got an answer from phottix which confirms that the max sync speed on
studio flashes is 1/250th of a second: “If the Phottix Odin is used to
trigger a studio strobe via the sync port, it will allow sync speed up to 1/250th sec maximum.”
I clearly talked about small flash 😉
I have read your text a few times to make sure I did not miss it. I understand it can do TTL and also manual. But if you are in manual mode how can you do a meter reading if the test flash has not the same output as the final flash? That for me would be unacceptable and a deal breaker for sure. Also is there a pre-flash on manual? that would not make sense! (Unless it is to communicate zoom settings to the flashes in the same group however it prevents combination of studioflash and speedlites)
I don’t know what’s going on in manual, I’ve mailed them and they will find out probably.
If you DON’T use a meter everything works flawless, IF you use a meter, metering at the moment is not possible the way I want it, but again I’m sure they will find a solution.
Maybe I sounded a bit negative but is was not meant that way, for TTL this is a system I was looking at for a while. The reviews I have read were just great about TTL but did not address using it in manual mode. I’m glad you did not skip that 😉 It is more affordable then the new Canon flash systems that requires the new flashes as an extra investment.
It depends of course, I think not many people use small flash with light meters, if you realize that a lot of people don’t even use them with big flash 😀
Manual does work flawless, but you can’t meter, I had the same problem with Nikon strobes in the studio a while ago, the Canons did meter, the Nikons did not although we changed all the settings to full manual it was really weird. The next workshop no problem at all (different student).
I will wait for an answer from Phottix about this what it could be, the weird thing is that when it happened with the Nikon strobe we did fire it from the strobe itself if I do that with the Sony I can meter it with the meter, if we do it via a “testshoot” it does not work.
Anyway I have mailed it to Phottix let’s see what they say.
Yes, the test button only fires a pre-flash – therefore will not meter
correctly. You can do as you have done and set the power manually on
the flash – or – set the Odin to Second Curtain Sync and use a long
shutter speed on the camera. Take a photo – the pre-flash will fire,
meter off the second main flash at the end of the exposure.
We are trying to resolve this issue but the way manufacturers have
designed their wireless triggering systems, as well as the number of
different flashes, makes this difficult.
I’ve used the Odins in manual mode and ETTL for the past year. I’ve used them on quite a few location shoots and at a couple of weddings and they have never let me down. The only issue I’ve found is that the on off switch on the side of the slave units is quite easy to move and get can moved to “on” in the camera bag, which can drain your batteries a bit ( although it does have a sleep/powersave mode ). Overall though I love them. I do use a flash meter in the studio but not so much on location if I’m using flashguns, so I’ve not really noticed the issues with metering.
I’m so desperate to ditch my PWII and Canon ST-E2 and move to one solution – the issue is the light meter and the pre-flash. I’m so used to walking around and making readings from multiple lights (quickly, away from the camera) I’m not sure I could live with the current workarounds. I hope they’ll fix this with a firmware upgrade but appreciate tehy headaches involved.
Same here, but I have good hopes, and for the Sony system I’m convinced for the moment the Odins are the best 🙂
Hello,
My just thought I’d share my experience with the Phottix Odin [ though mine is for Canon]
I use a canon 580exII triggered via the ODin…. I also have a SEkonic 478 meter…
I found out that I cant meter the flash when it is attached to the ODIN via the hotshoe…. It gives somewhat of a “false” reading…… I know [ because i saw on a webinar] that the 580exii at 1/4 power should give f8 worth of light at ISO 100 and shutter speed of 1/100 at about 8 feet from the speedlight…..
when i tried to duplicate this with the speedlight mounted via hotshoe i was getting something like f2.8 or f2.0….. tried putting in that setting into the 5d mkiii and sure enough everything was blown out….. yes the odin was in manual set to 1/4 power, i even set the flash to 1/4 power manually as well, even tried leaving flash in ettl with just the odin transmitter in manual but to no avail…..
was able to finally duplicate the 580exii at 1/4 power f8 at ISO 100 at 1/100…. I triggered the flash via the same odin transmitter and receiver but used a sync cord instead of mounting it on the hotshoe….. now I got me extra sets of Phottix Atlas II’s that are manual triggers that can be fired via the Odin transmitter… yes with the ATlas IIs the flash is mounted via hotshoe and i still get my f8 light…….
my thoughts…. am thinking maybe the manual setting the ODin isn’t really manual…..
just my 2 cents…. hope it helps
james
Manual is manual, it’s just that the testshoot is not the way you expect.
I’m disturbed by this light meter problem for a long time.
And I found out that pressing the Test button on the transmitter will cause the flashes to fire an initial low-power pre-flash, that’s why light meter can get it right.
But Phottix have updated the firmware for odin and solve this annoying problem. After the pre-flash, every group in the same channel will flash at the time 2.5s later at their set power levels.
It would be nice to see them getting this unit functional with the Canon 1Dx after 9 months. I understand the next firmware upgrade will have new features for everyone, but to ignore the 1Dx this long is painful. They should have released a firmware for the 1Dx first, and just made a second update for additional features later. When it works, it works well, but the lack of support is no good.
Don’t know about that from Phottix, I do know that PW took A LONG time (for me too long) to support the 5DMKIII
can this phottix odin for sony work with hyper sync on elinchrom ranger quadra, like pocket wizzard flex TT5/mini TT1 did? because i really need to use shutter speed above 1/250 until max 1/8000 with lot power in elinchom for fast/action purpose photograph. really need help, many thank you 🙂
hy how are u frank…
whether phottix Odin should wear ADP-AMA also in body hotshoe A99 ?
now use pixel king for sony and HVL-58 and do not feel satisfied at having to wear the ADP-AMA
At the moment I’m still using the convertors not my favorite thing but it works.
I hope they will release a real sony version (standard hotshoe) one day.
i have a Sony A7R + HVL-F60M flash, will this system work with my setup with the adaptor?
yes
hey i have sony a7r and elinchrom quadra ranger 400ws ..i cant hss this strobe..is with the photix i can do hss up to 1/4000 ????
The problem is that there is a shutter curtain so sync will be maxed out at 1/125 and sometimes 1/160 without darkening.
HSS on a studio strobe is impossible unless the strobe supports HSS and at the moment I believe that’s only the B1 from Profoto and only on Canon and Nikon ANY other studio/location strobe (unless it’s a system flash with HSS) will top out at the X-sync of your camera, there is no trigger that can prevent that.
i had A7 and elinchrom ranger quadra A-head, when i trigger it with el sky port i can reach 1/200 with out black bar. i heard from this https://www.flickr.com/groups/elinchrom/discuss/72157634860750668 some one had try successfully when set up elinchrom quadra with phottix odin last firmware can use HSS, it’s really interesting, i want to try it but i does’t have that trigger odin >.<
It would be weird if it worked because in essence it’s not the trigger but the simple fact you’re seeing the second shutter curtain and the pulse of the strobe is not long enough to light the complete sensor.
With SLOW strobes like the D-lites it can work, or with S-heads on lower power settings, but A heads…. even with the PW and a Canon 5DMKII I could not get higher than 1/320 and then it already took a serious hit in output, with the D-lites I could reach up to 1/800.
In our studio we mostly have ELC, A heads and RX units so with HSS like solutions I’m out of luck on the other hand who needs it in the studio anyway, it’s only handy when shooting on location, if it would work you could consider getting an S-head.
there is ODS , hypersync and supersync options ?? so its not true that HSS is not working but the nearly similar method of overdrive sync with a slow flash duration flash so even with a Sony A7XXX camera that should work .
This was written 10 months ago, things change.
I will soon test this as soon as I have the time.
Elinchrom now just released a HS system that does something similar so I’ll check it with the Odin, it might trigger the quadra’s via the receivers.
Any News on The ODS Front , trying To get hypersync, supersync with phottix Odin and A7rii and Long Flash Duration Studio Flash . Or is the Nissin air System working ? Dont Know if there is a Nissin Receiver Shipping for studioflash like Elinchrom Quadra and HS Bulb? Or anybody Tested supersync with sony and Phottix Odin? Not HSs ! So Not with speedlights but studioflashrs.
It works, I posted some videos on it on my YouTube channel.
hi Frank any news for hypersync a studio flash with a Sony A7/A7R2 camera now . so following set up :
An old EL 1000 classic analog elinchrom mono head ,
Flash duration is very slow at 1/2 power 1/1000 t 0.5 time or t 0.1 time of 1/330 so could a elinchrom transmitter and receiver fire the old EL slow 1000 and I get a higher sync speed ? Or could another trigger like a new original Sony wifi trigger which is available in transmitter and receiver do the trick ? I don’t talk of HSS , I’m interested in old elinchrom slow El 1000 studio lights like the beginner series Dlites ?? Best Andreas
You could try the new sky port. The slower the strobe in essence the better it works. But I don’t have experience with that one. Best is to ask Elinchrom.
Sounds promising ! But to ask elinchrom anything about old products they are not interested I think. But with the new sky port as you said it’s an option to test it as I guess there is a transmitter and receiver . The HS bulb is nothing than a slow t0.1 time flash , but not everybody is willing to buy flash systems for more than thousands of €£ if an old reliable elinchrom EL analog flash can do. Thanks for showing an option for artistic flash use on a budget .
But what kind of receiver should I use if I want the elinchrom skyport HD transceiver for Sony with a studio flash like a dlite or an old EL 1000 classic i need a transmitter and receiver but I only found transmitter ones? You did a long time ago a video with Phottix Odin 1 and elinchrom studio dlites and it worked so must work some how:))
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ebf42c81845d608c92bfe99fc7621fc910001a1bb4f1068b891d40fe1910a223.png
Skyport is inside all New elinchroms.
sorry asked and wrote for old EL 1000 flash or old Dlite there is nothing inside isn’t it so I need a receiver but I think Eli has no receiver for old Eli flShes or third party flashes ? Don’t you remember your you tube video for Phottix long time ago there you explained everything :))
Ah sorry.
Oh yeah sorry. You can indeed use the phottix or an universal skyport receiver I think. As long as the trigger supports HS and ods
Hello Frank, I got the firmware update with the ODIN TCu and could see OVEr Drive Sync on the Display, you have to press +and mode simultaniously. Perhaps you could try it with a long duration flash T-05 with you A7RII. I only have A7R, A7,A6000.Would be interesting to know if the ODIN TCU could give a fast preflash for Hypersync , ODS, supersync with a long duration flash unit. like a Quadra S-head on full power or the new HS heads. Best would be a HSS solution but passion is a virtue for sony photographers. I’m an art photographer and this feature would be essential as there is no HSS studio lense option until now. With the Profoto B1 at 1/1000 full power the flash is quiet slow and in combi with the ODin TCU and ODS this could work out. Hopefully the joint venture of Phottix, Eli, is leading to a proper HSS easy solution. But ODS could help. Phottix a pity is not answering on requests and support questions.
Best Regards Andy munich germany photpgrapher
For small flash I already have HSS, the studio strobes can’t be triggered by my odin, I don’t have the trigger for that 😀
But you wrote you have a Odin system for your Sony system ??? Its a cool option to use Supersync or OVer Drive sync with a Quadra S Head as otherwise no HSS support with a Sony A7RII camera and a studio strobe.I thought you have A TCU Odin for your ancient A99:-)) not anymore your wrote that long time ago??
I do but only for small flash. I use the Mitros +
So I’ll see if I can hook up an older receiver on the strobes via cable.
Phottix Mitros flashes won’t work with vintage and “unchipped” manual lenses. TTL and M modes do not work when mounted on the hot shoe, or when controlled by an Odin transmitter. There’s a horrible work-around by using them off-camera in M mode, and adjusting each flash at the flash (exactly not the reason you’d by into the Odin/Mitros+ system).
Off camera I have absolutely no problem.
They just work with TTL, zoom and HSS.
Oncamera I never used them 😉
You have to make sure you have the strobes set up properly on TTL even if you want to use manual. It’s in the manual.
Sure, I get you were dealing with strobes, but this was a review of Odin, which also controls the Mitros+ flashes. The flashes must also be set to TTL for manual control by the Odin, but they’re not going to work with unchipped lenses.
No experience with manual lenses but that does make sense because for ettl there has to be info from the lens otherwise it will register as f0.0 or x.x
That’s not really a Odin or Mitros problem I believe.
Well, through the lens metering does not require the aperture setting, obviously the light is metered by the body using a pre-flash. Otherwise an ND filter would cause havoc: it doesn’t.
What you’re thinking of is focus distance and subject location to adjust automatic metering. How exactly would that matter to an exact output specified in M mode?
How do you explain that TTL does expose correctly? …it is, in fact, only +/- adjustments to TTL that are broken.
No idea.
Just thinking out loud what it could be.
Sometimes it makes sense sometimes it doesn’t.